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Is it only me or have others noticed of late that we seem to be getting asked specific questions relating to exams? 

How do we know whether or not we are assisting people with exams (which are taken at home rather than in a centre under exam conditions), unless someone who has recently taken one of them comments, we are unlikely to know, therefore,
how can the validity and reliability of these exams be maintained?

Does this or does this not then devalue the qualification in question?

Just some random thoughts for discussion from the viewpoint of a recently retired moderator/examiner for a book-keeping awarding body.

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hi,

it did not cross my mind but you are probably right. me personally i would never ask for help in an exam, i do like challanges, but i can actually imagine people would do that. anybody does this is not cheating on the exam but cheating on him or herself...you can pass an exam in many ways but if you havent got the actual knowledge what,s the point?
that,s just my opinion

-- Edited by attilabenko on Monday 7th of June 2010 11:23:49 PM

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Attila



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anyway i don,t think this would devalue the exams you can take at home, they are normally not very much valued or are they?

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Attila



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I wouldn't value an exam taken at home, too many resources to draw on, too easy to cheat.

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Steve


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Hi,

I personally have taken all mine at an exam centre, under exam conditions, which means you need the knowledge to sit and pass it.

I've never quite understood how you can take them at home and then send it in. Maybe an assignment at certain stages to send in and me maked etc but not an exam.

This is just my opinion, but a good debate Sheila.

A

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Amanda



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For some reason I don,t think people who are continuously doing these sort of things will join in this debate...

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Attila



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I can't even believe they let people take exams at home, it's a stupid idea and relies on honesty.

Even when sitting the exams at centres you are relying on the person supervising to be honest and adhere to the guidelines, which is fine most of the time but you have to wonder if some of the providers out there are happy to let things go for the sake of pass rates.

Of course as said if you can and do cheat you're only cheating yourself, however it does then seem to allow people who shouldn't be progressing in a financial career to progress and therefore cheapening it for people who do study hard and are capable of doing the work. blah blah, could go on for hours about this, why should I try so hard etc, farming the industry out to people who will do it for £4 per hour and aren't garanteed to be qualified etc etc smile

Bottom line is exams should be strict and should be adjudicated by trusted members of whichever body you are studying with i.e a MAAT for anything AAT as they will of worked hard for their title and won't want anyone passing who has cheated.

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Steve


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Hi

I am doing a book keeping course. My training provider is 'Training Link', who are not being very helpful in assisting me with the course material. That is the main reaon why I ask for help on this forum. They give the following reason for not providing any help with the course-

They say that I have passed all the assignments in the allocated work book and have got them correct. the next stage is now the mock exam (which I do at home on the computer). After passing the mock exam, I would be given a date when I can sit the proper exam.

It is the mock exam that I am stuck on. They are saying that because it is an 'exam', they cannot give me any assistance. The thing that most upsets me is that they are only willing to go through the mock exam with me if I get the trial balance to balance. Obviously, if I did get the trial balance to balance then I would most likely get the correct answer, and there would be no need for my training provider to go through the exam paper with me!

Another thing that I have been silly in doing is that - This book keeping course is in 3 levels. I am on the first level - however, I have paid for all the 3 levels upfront. However, the total amount of money hasn't exactly left my account, I am paying in instalments. If they don't change their behaviour, I have a good mind to cancel the future direct debits and change my course & provider - I am thinking of doing the AAT.

Would I be breaking any laws if I cancelled my direct debits and chose not to continue with the course?

Any advice would be most appreciated.

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Submit your mock exam and then they are likely to help you with the areas that you are struggling with, it sounds like they are assessing you prior to the real exam, which in some respects is a good thing.

As for cancelling the direct debit it would depend I suppose on any contract that you may of signed.

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Steve


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Hi,

I think its silly they won't help you thats what they are paid for isn't it! The mock exam is to highlight any weaknesses if there are any.
Like Steve says read the contract and see if you can cancel, even if they charge you an admin charge its got to be worth it.

AAT is definately the best route.

Good luck.
Amanda

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Amanda



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Cancelling - the price was likely based on doing all three levels. Purchased indicidually they would probably cost a lot more.

As for the mock exam I disagree with Amanda. The assignments are to highlight any weaknesses. The exam is to see if you would pass the exam under (as near as) exam conditions. You should do the exam with no help. If you fail you are not ready for the real exam.

-- Edited by Peasie on Tuesday 8th of June 2010 01:26:03 PM

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Geek

I wasn't aiming that at anyone in particular, just a general discussion of people's views.

With mock exams I also think perhaps you training company is correct in not giving you advice otherwise they would not know what you need more help with prior to the proper exam.

Regards cancelling a direct debit again as others have said it would depend on any contract you may have signed with the provider. If you have signed on the dotted line it would be somewhere in the small print as to what, if any, cancellation charges there were or whether you were contracted to the full amount whether you continued the course of not.

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Hi Manjinda,

on the question about would you be breaking any laws that all depends on the finance arrangement.

If the situation is that you have financed a purchase then there is no difference between buying the course and buying a car.

You may even find that the finance arrangement if not actually with who you think that it is!

If conversely the materials for the next two parts have not been delivered and will not be delivered until you pay for them then the situation is quite different. That seems more akin to a magazine subscription.

The training company is bound by the sale of goods and services act (1982) which is the same law that the supply of accountants services is regulated under.

Basically the goods or service provided must be fit for purpose and if it is not then you should find that you are in a strong position legally.

I am not qualified to offer you legal advice so you would be much better off seeking the advice of a solicitor. Initial visits are normally free and they will be better able to tell you your legal position.

The key to this is actually the legal form of the agreement with the training provider (or finance company of the training provider).

It would be better if the matter could be resolved amicably but the above just lets you know that there are options.

Shaun.

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Hi Sheila,

the current deluge of questions was something that I discussed with Manjinder on another thread. He was in agreement that considering the level of questions in his first thread it was a good idea to take a step back and rethink his current stage studies.

I have noticed though that we are now getting a lot of very specific questions and there were a couple a few days ago that just cut and pasted questions and demanded an answer which made me think that they might have been under the impression that we were being paid for the help that we give on here.

The fact that specific questions were asked did make me wonder at the time whether we were being asked to assist in an actual exam situation.

In a few of my replies I've tried to point people in the right direction but not given any actual answers which is the approach that I think, at least for exam style questions, we should adopt when answering on the site.

For specific questions of course one cannot help but give the answer but when it's a whole trial balance that needs resolving, yes the likes of ourselves can do it but it's really not helping the newbies if we end up doing it for them.

I think that with some of the people just moving into bookkeeping they are trying to run before they're really ready to walk.

Unfortunately with so many redundancies at the moment people are believing the hype and are jumping into bookkeeping like drowning men clambering onto the first piece of driftwood that comes in reach.

Unfortunately people invest a lot of money on the back of empty training provider promises before realising that it's really nowhere near as straight forwards as training providers would have them believe.

It's my belief that some people will never get it and others that do will never enjoy it. Hopefully our messages on this site help some people to read the right books before investing large amounts of their redundancy money but I know that many more join the site when it's already too late.

Anyway, I'm getting off piste. basically, yes, I agree with you and think that we should answer exam style questions with how to answers rather than the actual answers.

Just my thoughts. Hope it made sense.



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lor


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attilabenko wrote:

anyway i don,t think this would devalue the exams you can take at home, they are normally not very much valued or are they?



Hi hope you don't mind me saying but I have noticed that you are typing incorrectly, e.g as above the don,t should be don't. Hope you don't mind me saying though!

 



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Hi Manjinder,

Did they give you much help when you were going through the book learning it before the mock exam?

I agree with Peasie, it may have been a special price with all 3 levels, hence one level will be expensive.

Have you checked they are legit??? The only reason I say this, is years ago (about 10), I signed up for a computer course the guy came to my house and again heavy sales stuff, anyway after about 2 hours and struggling to get rid of him I agreed to sign up for the course, can't remember who with, paid a cheque, I think the deposit was about £50 then again installments after that, anyway read on the internet that the company was going bust and there would be loads of students left high and dry. Well I cancelled my cheque with the bank I think it cost me £10 and cancelled all my installments etc. I rang them to tell them I didn't want to do it (there was a cooling off period), and they said they would send the guy round to collect the books (worth about £100), anyway never turned up, so I have these books, some very useful in my loft.

So although we would all like to think the training providers are OK, some are not.

Its just a thought HTH
Amanda

PS, can you not finish the mock exam as best as you can after going though it and checking it for errors etc, you may get it to balance then, and then send it in to see how you have done, at least it will highlight any areas that need more practise before the real exam.



-- Edited by Amanda on Tuesday 8th of June 2010 04:12:06 PM

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Shamus wrote:


If conversely the materials for the next two parts have not been delivered and will not be delivered until you pay for them then the situation is quite different. That seems more akin to a magazine subscription.


Extract from Training Link's terms and conditions :
Please note that even if you choose not to continue with the course at any time the whole amount outstanding is still due as all tutor fees have been paid and you have entered into a legal binding contract to pay the full amount.

http://www.training-link.co.uk/page?xPage=terms.html

 



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Oooops thats got to hurt, seems like it does pay to shop around after all.

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Steve


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Shamus wrote:
If the situation is that you have financed a purchase then there is no difference between buying the course and buying a car.

You may even find that the finance arrangement if not actually with who you think that it is!

If conversely the materials for the next two parts have not been delivered and will not be delivered until you pay for them then the situation is quite different. That seems more akin to a magazine subscription.


Hi Peasie,

you quoted the wrong line of mine then. From your quote it's obviously the first option that's applicable. Namely that you have taken out a loan exactly the same as you would to buy a car.

You'll probably find that the courses are factored as soon as you buy them and if you strted digging you might find that the debt isn't with training link at all.

The last bits just a guess but I know that training companies and recruitment agencies just lurv factoring companies.

So. ignore everything else Manjinder. It's a loan and unless you can prove that the company has not supplied the goods to the quality promised (unlikely) there's very little hope of walking away from it.


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Shamus wrote:

Shamus wrote:
If the situation is that you have financed a purchase then there is no difference between buying the course and buying a car.

You may even find that the finance arrangement if not actually with who you think that it is!

If conversely the materials for the next two parts have not been delivered and will not be delivered until you pay for them then the situation is quite different. That seems more akin to a magazine subscription.


Hi Peasie,

you quoted the wrong line of mine then. From your quote it's obviously the first option that's applicable. Namely that you have taken out a loan exactly the same as you would to buy a car.


I'm not sure what the logic was behind the bit I was quoting. Maybe to point out that it wasn't like a magazine subscription. Who knows the way my mind works at times. Certainly not me. What I did find funny was when I pasted it into this forum the font became even smaller. "The small print" becoming even smaller.

I've been doing the ICB Level 2 Manual mock exam just now and in between questions I've been visiting the forum. I found the exam a little too easy for my liking. Maybe that will backfire and I'll actually fail it (or fail the real thing). Or maybe the stuff has actually sunk in. They send out a mock exam with Ideal Schools. I think I may go ahead and purchase another one from the ICB as I won't be able to sit the exam until July anyway.

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Shamus wrote:

You'll probably find that the courses are factored as soon as you buy them and if you strted digging you might find that the debt isn't with training link at all.


It is with GLH Credit.

 



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And there you go!

Sometimes it worries me how much superfluous knowledge must be swimming around in the recesses of my mind. No wonder I can't remember half the things that I need to when I hold onto all these things that I really don't need.

On the exam front my money is on that you've got it sussed Peasie. Rather than invest in another ICB Mock why not do some of the old CAT exams which are available for free on the ACCAGlobal website,

Have a look here :

http://www.accaglobal.com/students/cat/exams/

go to any of the papers that interest you and try the past exam papers in either UK or International versions.

Might be a good idea to save them to your own drive as you never know when the ACCA are going to do an AAT and make them only available to signed up members.

Have fun and talk later,

Shaun.

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Hi Lorraine,

No, I do not mind! Sometimes I am typing on a touchscreen and I have no idea where the characters are. I know, I should type than do not instead of don,t to be correct...
I do apologise :)

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