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Neil


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Seeing a thread about online accounting software prompted me to wonder about the physical methods people use to back up data. This might have been discussed at length or be covered in one of the computerised courses I haven't yet sat and I apologise if it's old hat.

My interest in this comes from outside this field and relates to solar magnetic storms, cosmic rays and such. Although this sort of thing sounds quite fantastic it is taken seriously by people like Intel.

As most people are no doubt aware, stray magnetic fields can corrupt data on disk drives and I'm sure that data storage professionals always ensure they have optical backups (CD, DVD) but is this common practice in financial services?

Cheers
Neil

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Shamus


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Morning Neil,

My setup is...

Duel PC's with a mirror setup. Both PC's also have duel drives that mirror each other.

Daily backups to external hard drive,

Weekly backups to DVD that are kept in a data safe.

Backup PC not internet enabled or linked to the LAN.

UPS power supply and surge protectors.

Standard industry practice (banks and other financial institutions) is to keep at least 8 generations of backup on a GDG basis. That is the ninth generation overwrites the first, tenth overwrites the second, etc.

cheers,

Shaun.

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Neil


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Sounds very belt and braces. Out of interest, how do the two PCs mirror each other if they're not connected via LAN?

Cheers

Neil

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Shamus


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Hi Neil,

no, those two PC's are on the LAN and they're both constantly on. I just switch the screens off at night.

The backup PC is an older machine (from 2003) and is totally separate to the rest of the setup.

I come from banking. Specifically Payments security and fraud so extremely conscious of data security issues.

On the security front, it's a good idea to have multiple forms of protection running.

I run McAfee as the main security but also have Ad-Aware and Spybot S&D running on the machine with daily scans using Spybot... Download Spybot from Safer Networking and Ad-aware from Lavasoft. Both are free and have become must haves over the past ten years.
Trust me, no matter what your firewall it won't stop all keyloggers, worms and trojans.

So, it's belt, braces, backup belt, spare trousers and emergency tailors on speed dial!

talk later,

Shaun.









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Zoe


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Hi Shamus/Neil

Is the backup PC in a different location or on the same site? We have a remote back up just in case of fire/flood etc.

Zöe

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Shamus


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Hi Zoe,

afraid I'm not that big a practice so it's in a different room of the same house but the backup DVD's are kept in a firesafe that Geoff Capes wouldn't be able to lift.

Oops, school run time. Got to go. Chat later,

cheers,

Shaun.

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BackOfficeGroup


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wow Shaun, thats a very impressive set up for a small business.

Most would be ok with either a daily tape backup or to an external drive of somesort.

P

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Shamus


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Hi Phillip,

its grown over time and to be honest it's been caused more by needing to upgrade machines than actual planning.

Although the machines mirror the data they don't always mirror the programs so it helps to have different machines running different versions of Excel for the various Macro's that I support.

After saying that though my main PC quite merrily runs Excel 2000 and Excel 2007.

But regardless of excuses us banker types are a naturally cautious lot anyway. Anything that can go wrong will go wrong and if it looks OK you must have missed something.... And believe it or not, I'm a glass half full sort of banker!!!

hope your days been a profitable one,

talk soon,

Shaun.





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BackOfficeGroup


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very busy today thanks, just off now to sit on the M25 to collect some books to do! Hoorah!

Have you used Windows 7 as yet? I'm always cautious to new op systems as it takes time for the software guys to become compatible and/or printers etc.

P

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Shamus


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Not gone anywhere near W7 yet but heard good reports about it.

No wonder nobody trust new operating systems after MS inflicted Vista on us.

One of my machines did come with Vista on it so the first thing that I did was format the drive and installed XP.




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Shaun

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Amanda


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Hi Shaun,

Thats impressive Back-up. I tend to back up my work ie QB and Sage on Memory sticks, I haven't bought an external hardrive yet as the local computer shop told me not to bother, but I am still thinking I should. The thing is I am not very gemmed up on the external hardrives and need educating on them. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!

It would be stored at home possible in another room. Are they easy to plug in etc??

Thanks
Amanda
PS you seem to be a computer wizz kid!

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Amanda
Shamus


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Hi Amanda,

you can get a Maxtor or Seagate 500 mb external drive from Tesco for about £50.

They really are plug and play. Plug it into a USB port and its recognised as another drive exactly the same as your memory stick except with more storage capacity.

I tend to keep all of my data in one area and just back up the entirety of it regardless of whether some folders have been changed or not.... Even sadder, I've got two backup drives and alternate them between days... How determined am I not to have to repeat typing then!

Don't know about being a computer whizz but been using them for a long time (I still remember DOS with fond memories!).

My area of computer expertise is actually IBM mainframes rather than PC's but absolutely love Excel so figure I was born to be an accountant.

back in a bit, talk later,

Shaun.

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Amanda


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Your such a star!!

So would you say that an external hardrive is better than memory sticks etc, occassionally use discs as well. Its mainly SAGE and QB you never know when the PC may break, touch would my Toshiba is really good.

Cheers
Amanda

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Amanda
Shamus


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Hi Amanda,

always glad to help.

External hard drive for everyday use. CD / DVD for periodic backup (weekly or monthly).

Memory sticks are great for transferring files between machines but I wouldn't trust important files to them without some other form of backup.

Try to run Spybot before doing your backups otherwise you may inadvertently take a backup of a Keylogger, Worm or Trojan with your files!

talk later,

Shaun.

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Neil


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BackOfficeGroup wrote:
Have you used Windows 7 as yet? I'm always cautious to new op systems as it takes time for the software guys to become compatible and/or printers etc.

I'm using Windows 7 on 3 out of 4 computers. I hated Vista so much that I was considering migrating to Linux and all that it entails but Win 7 has convinced me that Microsoft can get their act together.

An upgrade on Vista was totally free of hiccups and two XP machines each with only 1Gb RAM took only a bit of research to find a couple of drivers. Both of the smaller (memory) machines run Win 7 flawlessly. It is also faster than Vista because it doesn't spend all that time preening itself.

Microsoft learned a lesson from the Vista launch and there are tens of thousands of drivers available so if you have hardware that is reasonably up to date it will work. If not, Vista drivers tend to work.

One thing I can't comment on is how your software will run under it. I don't have accounting software yet.

Cheers

Neil



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Shamus


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Morning Neil.

I'm going through an I hate Sage morning at the moment. Thankfully I've just found the £6k that was causing me grief. (Everything balanced but the figures were just not right).Thank goodness for the Nominal detailed analysis report.

On the Vista / XP / W7 subject.

Vista was a rushed out mistake by MS. The only excuse for it was a revenue gathering exercise.

The banks never adopted it.

One insurance company that I work with had all MS products taken off their machines in protest at the annual MS tax... You don't realise how good MS products actually are until you have to use the competitions offerings!

Dell continued to offer XP to business users right up until W7 was released.

Versions 14 & 15 of Sage Instant are directly W7 compatible but if any accountancy software that worked with XP doesn't work with W7 native it should work in W7 XP emulation mode.

I don't actually have W7 myself yet but suspect that it will not suffer the same fate as Vista if I buy a machine preloaded with it.

Talk later,

Shaun.

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Amanda


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Hi,

I have Vista, and don't really have any problems, touch wood!
My first laptop which was and Advent one, had Vista but it didn't have enough memory and it was slow and rubbish, but this time round I bought a laptop with bigger memory and its far better. Have loaded Excel2003 on it as like that better.

Shaun, when you get use to SAGE its really OK, admittedly not as user friendly as QB but once you get into it its really OK. I probably don't use my instants to its full capacity as my client isn't that big. I did my SAGE training quite a few years ago and it didn't take long to pick it up again. I bought a really CD Rom off e-bay I think, it was about SAGE training and how to use it, it was basic but certainly jogged a few memories and good to refer to as it had a demo for most sections. I think it cost me about £30 at the time, it was a while ago but I expect if you look on Amazon or e-bay you could probably still get one.

Cheers
Amanda

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Amanda
Peasie


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I back up everything on floppy discs and keep them all in a cardboard box under the kitchen sink. biggrin

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Shamus


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Your backup storage just sent a shudder down my spine Peasie!

Hope you appreciate that this is now going to take months of therapy for me to get past! Floppies, moisture rich environment, Nooooo.....

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Shaun

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Neil


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Peasie wrote:
I back up everything on floppy discs and keep them all in a cardboard box under the kitchen sink. biggrin

I hope you don't mean those new 3.5" ones!

 



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Shamus


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Hi Amanda,

I do actually use Sage line 50 financial controller. It's only version 10 but it does me as I do still try to avoid it whenever possible as no matter how much I try I still don't like it.

I think that it's one of those things. Some software you like, some you don't. I love Excel. No major problems with SAP and I'm in my element with almost any system that's a front end for a green screen. But Sage has yet to grow on me.

I did get the Sage training CD off Ebay years back. If it's the same version it's a two page menu and you choose which lessons you want to do after which you get a very annoying person telling you how to use windows shortcuts.

I found the AAT foundation workbook on bookkeeping using Sage a much better medium for me as I'm one of those bods who learns better by doing it rather than being told how to do it.

I've ordered the Sage level III certification course from Amazon and I'm looking forwards to trying out the 2008 version of the software to see if it's improved over the years (unlike Excel which has gone the other way... Must try the Beta copy of Office 2010 to see if there's an option to make Excel look, feel and act like it used to).

Anyway, I've got one at the moment where I have to use Sage. Luckily my old version sufficed again for now but I know that I'm going to have to bite the bullet and fork out the extortionate price of a new version at some stage.

Talk later,

Shaun.

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Shaun

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Shamus


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I know what yo mean Neil.

How can they call those new fangled things floppies. Have you actually tried bending one!

Think that I've still got a box of five and a quarter inchers somewhere but I've no longer got a working machine that will use them.... There is an old 386DX25 in the loft. It doesn't work but there's no way that I'm throwing out anything that cost me over £2000!

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Shaun

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Amanda


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Hi Shaun,

Before you spend a fortune upgrading SAGE I would seriously look at Quickbooks. Mine is only a 2008 version but I know they have newer ones out now. I love it and am a big fan of it. Its personal preference at the end of the day. Hell of alot cheaper and I can have upto 99 Clients' companies on there, which is alot. Unfortunately I don't have that many, I can only wish!
Anyway best go have alot to do today before kids come home!!! Thought my February may have been quiet after January but no let up which is good, can't complain really.

Cheers
A

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Amanda
Neil


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One of those feeble things? My first PC was a 386 DX40 with 4MB RAM and a 40 Mb disk. Nowadays I clean about 500 Mb rubbish files off my disk every week.

I guess that's progress?

Cheers

Neil

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Shamus


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Hi Amanda,

back from my adventures again. Had to pop into a clients before picking my boy up from school so bit rushed before, sorry.

I think that whatever I upgrade to it's likely to be dictated by a client. Quickbooks is one of those things that I should have on my machine as I'd hate to lose a client because I didn't know how to use the software that they're using... Then again, as you've said before, when you know one converting to anothers not so bad.

Much as I dislike Sage I do feel that it will always have to be on my machine in some form as it's the one most commonly used by small businesses.

I'm actually busier now than I was in Jan but that's down to the ACCA not letting me do SA returns (bless their little cotton socks!!!) and little else happening after Christmas.

Glad to hear that it's a busy one for you.


Hi Neil,

I remember the hard drive on my computer was 90mb and thought at the time that there was no way that anybody would ever fill up that amount of space! Nowadays you couldn't even imagine having that little RAM let alone a hard drive.

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Shaun

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semsley


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Ahh a walk down memory lane.  My first "computer" was an amstrad 256 (still up in the loft with it's little dot matrix printer all the books and little unfloppy, floppy disks and locoscript).  This was replaced by a 386 with a whopping 20 Mb hard drive and 5.25 proper floppy disks (again box loads of them in the loft), it ran Windows 3 (I think) on DOS that was about 2 grand as well Shaun.  Then we got a 486 with a bigger hard drive so that hubby could use his Autocad (again a very old version) and we still have the dot matrix printer a Star, which was actually quite good, which we used with both.  Next was a Packard Bell with Windows 98 with hard floppy, CD and DVD (separate) drives, which I used until last year when I was given a Dell, from a client who was retiring, with Windows XP and, horror or horrors no floppy disk drive!!!!!!  Still got all the disks though and can use them on the old PB machine.  Then the most up to date of the lot (but still 2 years old) an Acer Laptop which I love but sadly still has no floppy although I know I could buy an external one if I really wanted to.  It's also XP I got the Vista upgrade free but I've never installed it.

I believe Windows 7 takes a lot from Apple with the "tray".  I use a I-Mac at one of my client but still prefer Windows machines.

I back up to CD/DVD and memory stick, probably not ideal but at least I have more than one copy.

WRT Sage like you, Shaun, I've an old version FC V11 which I think runs out of support this year but I've always been of the mind that if it works it's not necessary to upgrade - except that sometimes it is not possible with Sage to restore newer version backups on older versions - nice one Sage good for selling the yearly new version. 

However, I love Sage and hate QB (use 2008 at one client's).  I don't find QB easy at all because although it does, it doesn't appear to use double entry.  You can also delete entries without leaving a trace on an audit trial - disastrous for backtracking.  On the plus side it has brilliant drill down facilities and very good reporting (if you can work out what you want).  Journals are not easy and account activity very difficult to follow.  Basically if you are a non-book-keeper/accountant QB is ideal (but you could really mess it up) if you come from a manual backgrou and you're used to double entry Sage wins hands down.

Sheila

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Amanda


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Hi Sheila,

What version of QB have you got? I have got Pro 2008, and mine double entries OK, if you go into the chart of accounts its got all the accounts in there and if you click on one of the accounts it can give you a report of whats been posted and when etc. Bit like the Nominal ledger in Sage. I work on one of the older vserions at someones office and I think its Quick start, thats not as good as mine but is OK.

I was advised to invest in QB by a Chartered Accountant, they use it all the time and I have since found another couple of local accountants that also use it. The only reason I did not go down the Sage route was the high cost and when you are just setting out I just couldn't afford it at all.
I'm sure one day I will invest in the Sage FC but for now I don't warrant spending that type of money unfortunately.

On my QB if you go into reports and go to the accountants/tax bit it will then list various reports that can be ran, including Void/Deleted transacations so you can see whats been deleted etc and run a report.
I do agree with you that if someone who does not know how to bookkeep uses it, with the option to just delete it, it could become a disaster.

Anyway hope the legs getting better now.

Regards
Amanda

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Amanda
semsley


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Hi Amanda

Yes it's QB Pro 2008.  TBH I haven't really had any time to play with it 'cos I haven't got it at home and the Treasurer (it's a charity) showed me the basics (which he'd self learnt).  This particular job is my only employed one but it's only 25 hours a month so I don't have the time to fully explore it.  I'm also not sure what happens to the VAT as it seems to journal itself!!!   I started last April and the y/e was December the Treasurer likes everything done at the end of each month and the books were at the Accountants 3 weeks ago.  Accountant was in on Monday and everything seems OK except an opening balance the Treasurer put in when he transferred from Quicken to QB last year - not my problem.

Leg's getting better thanks have a dressing change tomorrow and when I was there last week the nurse told me to book for next week when she may be able to discharge me so hopefully I'll be able to have a proper bath for the first time in 9 weeks!!!!!

Sheila

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Amanda


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Hi Sheila,

Glad the legs on the mend at last its been a long time, I hope you do get some compensation for this.

Yes the VAT does journal itself out, unlike SAGE, where you have to do the VAT wizard.
You have the same version, its very easy, I print of all the VAt report if you click into each box it will print each box of transactions out, like box 1 etc the I always print a copy of the actual report and transfer the figures by hand onto the actural VAT form. Then if you go to the VAT menu and go file VAT, (make sure you have printed it first), and click file VAT it then says do you want to pay now or pay later (not linked directly to live bank account), and if choose pay later option it will sit in the suppliers list under HMRC and then you click on the suppliers menu and go to pay bills and then pay it normally as a normal bill/invoice.

I must say I found it easy. I was given bum information a while ago about SAGE Vat and although I have done all the reports correct and checked them all they failed to tell me to wizard them out or journal them out. So although I wizard out the last one, I have the previous ones to do before year end approaches. So my question to you is how do I journal our previous VATs to the VAT Control account in SAGE? I do all the other stuff with the VAT bit on SAGE correctly and I always check it methodically before given the VAT form back to the client.

I have also posted abit on the forum about QB's training and about the VAT codes for you hope it helps.

cheers
Amanda

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Amanda
semsley


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Hi Amanda

Vat Journal for Sage as follows:

Debit 2200 Vat on Sales
Credit 2201 Vat on Purchases
Debit or Credit the difference (refund or payment) to 2202

For some reason I always journal rather than use wizard, I think it's because when I first started using Sage there wasn't a wizard!!!

-- Edited by semsley on Tuesday 9th of February 2010 11:33:44 PM

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Zoe


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Hi Guys

I used to use Sage but now use Quickbooks Premier. I prefer Quickbooks as for me, I find it easier to use although I must agree I think there is more room for error in Quickbooks than Sage as you can easily delete entries and they are gone forever. I do however think the reporting function is better and more comprehensive in Sage.

As for old 'computers' - my first one was a ZX Spectrum!

Zöe

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Wella


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Not to feel left out on the first computer history

Commadore VIC-20 with 5KB ram expandable to 32KB!! and 16KB Rom

Bill

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Shamus


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If we're talking pre PC's.

ZX81 which I never really used and swapped for a Spectrum as that had games available for it.

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Neil


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My first computer of any description was a ZX-81. What ever happened to that idea of having about 23 different functions for each key?

Cheers

Neil

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Zoe


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Shamus wrote:

ZX81 which I never really used and swapped for a Spectrum as that had games available for it.



Manic Miner?

 



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Shamus


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Oh yes.

And Jet Pac, and halls of the things...

Wasn't just coincidence either that my first PC was the right spec for Wing Commander!

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Terri


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My first pc was an Amstrad 464+ and I got it for Christmas when I was a child. The games for it were on cassettes and used to take about four hours to load a game - happy days

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Dangermouse


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I am reviewing my back up at the moment and this thread has been very helpful. It's important to have the multiple back ups, but tricky without being an expert to know what is sufficient and what is overkill. We aren't banks. We do hold a lot of important financial information.

I didn't know about the optical storage being safe against electrical problems, if I interpret that correctly (lightning and the like). While it might not be so common in the UK, having previously lived in a location where having data being wiped/corrupted by electronic interference happened rather too frequently for my liking.

I'm just wondering about licences for encrpytion software for all the backups.

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