Help Required - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

Peter Pan · Veteran Member

Help Required

Wella · Expert

Hi Gordon

Just a couple of things I would check to start with.

First is, have you ticked the cash accounting box in the VAT set up. That can affect what appears on the return, and when.

The second is, did a VAT amount get entered into the transaction? Sometimes VT will leave it blank if it is not sure what amount to put in. For example if you had a supplier which gave you an early settlement discount, and you manually changed the VAT amount, the next time you posts a transaction from that supplier, it will leave the VAT blank. It is easily missed when enetering a lot of batch entries.

HTH

Bill

-- Edited by Wella on Saturday 24th of December 2011 11:41:45 AM

Peter Pan · Veteran Member

Hello Bill
Thanks for the prompt reply. Yes I have ticked the VAT box on setup of the company. I have gone back into the transaction and they have all been put in correctly. At one stage I even went to the point of deleting them and re entered the six transactions again, only for different entries to be missing. It is really quite odd I have setup three new companies thinking that I might have miss something in the setup but the problem remains. I have printed out the user manual and gone through all the steps to make sure that every thing is correct, but the VAT calculation remains incorrect. I really appreciate your prompt reply and for the suggestions made. If you or anyone else has another idea of what else I can try, I am only to willing to have a go.

Many Many Thanks
Gordon Thom

Wella · Expert

Hi Gordon

Are you saying you also ticked the "VAT Cash Accounting" box, or just the "VAT Registered" box?

My train of thought was that if you ticked both, then maybe you are not showing the invoices and receipts as paid. For example if you are posting an invoice from a supplier it will not show on VAT return until you have paid it. The same is true for a sales invoice, you have posted the sale but not posted the payment.

Have a look at the trial balance (F4) and see if you have any deferred VAT accounts with amounts sitting on them

Bill

Peter Pan · Veteran Member

Thanks Bill
I found the problem. That is not to say that I know how to set it up correctly in the UK they normally setup the date as year/ month /day where we in South Africa we normally use day/month/ year so what has been happening it that the VT software has been transposing my date and this pushing them into the year 2024 as to days date the 24th strange that the software does not give you the option to set the date format. Once the date was transposed the year became 2024 which was way out of my accounting period so now I really have to watch the how the date entry is saved.

Thanks a Many
Gordon Thom

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Gordon,

welcome to the forum.

The dates not a South African thing. In the UK we also use day/month/year for much of the time but where dates are used for computing purposes (South Africa included as I've also worked on banking systems for some of your institutions) one would put the ISO date in order to assist with sorting into sequence.

That was the hostorical reasoning anyway from the days of Mainframes. Modern computers can quite happily sort dates by sorting them based on converting them to a numeric value for the purposes of the sort, then converting them back without the end user ever realising what had happened in the background.

The actual date formats are :

Japanese Industrial Standard : yyyy-mm-dd
USA Standard : mm-dd-yyyy
European Standard : dd-mm-yyyy

The International Standards organisation (ISO) adopted the JIS standard.

As you can see, South Africa use the same standard as Europe.

Hope that this helps.

kind regards,

Shaun.

P.S. Bill... Penny... Penny... Penny....

P.S.2 It's an in Joke about me Gordon. Nothing to do with your post.

Peter Pan · Veteran Member

Hello Shaun
Thanks for your input. The date starts off right eg 24.12.2011 the moment you enter details it jumps to 11.12.2024 for some reason. I have checked My Pc time zone, time and date is all correct so that is not causing the problem. Having to go back and reset/ check the date is a pain. It is all a bit new to me and am sure I will get used to it.

Thanks again for your input

Kind regards

Gordon Thom

Peasie · Expert

I like the Japanese version for dates.
Any time I save a pdf of a statement (be it bank, phone, electricity) I save the filename it in that format.

The "Penny, Penny, Penny" thing - when did that start? I seem to recall Sheldon just repeatedly knocking on the door. Then all of a sudden it was limited to three. The best one was when Penny answered the door before the third one but he just said it anyway. I'm sitting here laughing just thinking about that one.
I can see bits of me in Leonard, Rajesh, Penny and Sheldon - the only one I can't identify with is Howard.

Peter Pan · Veteran Member

Hello Guys / Dolls
This last reply was a bad guess and has me a bit more confused or maybe my name let you think I was some else. I really don't think that this mail was intended for me as I don't know anything about Penny,Sheldon, Rajeesh, and who ever else
Any way have a great day
Regards
Gordon Thom

Wella · Expert

Hi Gordon

The Penny , Sheldon thing is a reference to an American TV show "The Big Bang Theory", which is exceptionally funny, and was a hang over from a previous thread.

Going back to your immediate problem, I didn't realise you were not in the UK. Does How does VAT work in SA? In the UK we have several options to operate by.

The standard is a normal accruals convention. You get an sale, or purchase invoice, post it and the VAT is applied immediately,regardless of the paid/ unpaid status. The values will be due, and appear on the VAT return.

The other option we have is "Cash Accounting", which allows businesses to only account for VAT when the sales/ purchase invoices are paid. If you have ticked the cash accounting box, in the VAT set up. If you haven't paid a purchase invoice, or received payment for a sales invoice the VAT on those invoices will not appear on the return. Have a look in the set up menu at the VAT, and check if the Cash Accounting box is ticked. If it is un tick it and see if that gives you the expected results.

It may be an idea to create a new company file, and make new postings, as the changes are not retrospective. Any postings you have made will not change, only new ones are affected.

Peasie: I use the Japanese date format 20111225 (25/12/2011), as the last part of the file name too, when I save files, as it helps to sort them in chronilogical order

Bill

By the way Happy Christmas Day to all us saddoes that are on the forum today biggrin

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Gordon,

your right, posts within threads on this site tend to go off topic very quickly. It's a very freindly little community of like minded bookkeepers and accountants so we tend to chat like old freainds regardless as to which threads the responses are posted in.

the reference is to the cast of an American TV series called the Big Bang Theory.

the reference to this thread was my Sheldonesk OCD type response to your dates statement. Stuart (Peasie) picked up on that and likened himself to others in the cast.

It's no biggy. If there are any posts that you have input into even if slightly off topic (provided that there is some link even if a little off the subject) just join in and say what's on your mind.

We're a freindly bunch as you will I hope find out during your time posting on here.

Merry Christmas,

Shaun.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Morning Bill,

Oops, wasn't expecting anyone else to be checking the site today and we crossed in the post whilst I was putting the next part of todays meal in the oven.

Merry Christmas to you too matey.

Fellow Saddoe Shaun.

Wella · Expert

And to you too Shaun.

Thought I would have a little look round before the cooking sherry kicked in biggrin . Must admit i was surprised to find other post on here today

I apologise now If I post anything later today that is incomprehensible (or inappropriate )

Bill

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

I look forwards to the posts which start "And as for Gordon Brown...".

Actually, I think that those posts would be mine or Sheila's.

Santa bring you anything nice?

I got the complete set of the big bang theory off my eldest boy so it's not just this site that's seeing me as Sheldon!

And my youngest bought me the Kaplan ACCA paper P6 (Advanced Taxation) complete text for 2012... he knows me so well!... Actually, maybe the fact that I purchased it and just gave it to him to wrap is no never mind.

Have a good one Bill,

talk later,

Shaun.

Peasie · Expert

Wella wrote:
Peasie: I use the Japanese date format 20111225 (25/12/2011), as the last part of the file name too, when I save files, as it helps to sort them in chronilogical order

I usually put it at the start of the file. I will use the suggested file name but precedede it with 2011-12-25===.

Strangely I'll also avoid spaces in filenames and use underscores. Don't know why - I guess the only time spaces wlll matter is when a file is published on a website. Still when you get into a habit it's hard to break.

How did we live in the days of 8 charchter names?

What was everyone talking about again - oh yeah. VT Transaction.

EDIT : I can't even get the original topic right. It was VT Cashbook. Doh. Oh well, looking forward to my traditional christmas dinner of chicken korma and rice.

-- Edited by Peasie on Sunday 25th of December 2011 01:57:04 PM

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Peasie wrote:
How did we live in the days of 8 charchter names?

I look at some of my old brought forwards files and the file names are basically just codes such as three digit company identifier followed by year in 0102 (for 2001-2002) and a digit at the end that was at the time a code but I've long forgotten what all of the codes meant... I'll have written it down somewhere but who knows where that is... Just though of the family guy episode where Peter is watching Kiss save Christmas in the shop window.

Store owner turns it off in order to sell the set.

Peter says "I was watching that".

Store owner "It will be on again next Christmas"

Peter "And who knows when that will be".

... Poor old Gordons going to be wondering about now what on earth is this site that he's signed up to that spends as much time discussing American TV programs as Bookkeeping issues at the moment!

Whatever happened to the British making the best comedy programs. Seems that Big Bang Theory, How I met your Mother, Family Guy, American Dad, My name is Earl, etc. have us beaten into submission.

Oh, and Merry Christmas Peasie... Lunch here is pork with the Turkey relegated to boxing day... And Turkey sandwiches for the rest of the week.

Peasie · Expert

Character - didn't even notice I'd spelled it wrong until it was quoted.

Christmas Day - why can't they move it about like they do at Easter. Much better when it falls on a Sunday. Less disruption.

Peter Pan · Veteran Member

Hello All
I know it is Christmas. And we all need to be a bit lite hearted maybe a drop to much of the good stuff providing no driving is also good. But at the morrow I will still be stuck with this really very silly but most annoying date sage. Change of date sequence is not an option to be taken lightly the software is really not much good if you have to fight it every day. The year 2025 is way beyond my expire date. So I am asking all very kindly and also that it is christmas and a time of goodwill to find an answer to my problem.

Merry Christmas and please remember me tomorrow as Solution Is Really NEEDED

Kind regards
Peter Pan ........Gordon Thom

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Gordon,

How exactly are you entering these dates in the wrong format?

The date format within VT is dd/mm/yyyy which relates to the format that you state you are attempting to enter.

I don't understand how your entries are going in yy/yy/mmdd which is what you are implying.

Are you attempting to load the data from another source rather than entering the transactions directly into VT?

As you can see in the print of VT Cashbook VAT reconcilliation below the dates are shown in dd/mm/yyyy format so not 100% sure where you are going wrong at the moment.

Gordons VT Cashbook pic.jpg

Peter Pan · Veteran Member

Hello Again
What is happening is I start P&R screen. I select No. 1 for payment at this point the date is shown as 26/12/11 as you want to start the description you don't have to even type anything you just click on that segment where you would put the details which becomes highlighted the date changes to read 11/12/26 . everything appears normal until you tried to save the transaction. When an ALERT Appears on the screen ROW 1 Date Column and the message reads some transactions are dated after the current accounting period. It lets you the choose to continue or not . This you would accept as normal. Now my problem is to change the date. I go to the highlighted date square type an X and a drop down calender appears and you now select the correct date which the program accepts the moment you want to continue the date swings back to read 11/12/26 why this is happening I cannot say. I then have to go back to the date and high light again and have to re-enter the date as 26.12.11 and then the software accepts it.

It is not to bad if your are entering a few items. It when you enter one item at a time that it takes you longer to keep correcting the date. than the rest of the entry. If you choose to continue the entry and VAT get put into a period that I doubt I will see. but worst than that it does not show up on the VAT Return.
Thank you so very much I really do appreciate your time and effort you have put in trying to solve my problem.

Kindest regards

Gordon Thom

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Just been trying everything (mostly trying alternate year ends) to get VT Cashbook to get the date to translate from 26/12/11 but for me it's remaining the same.

Your system date must be correct as it's starting off as the correct date.

VT doesn't change dates if your in a different period so it's not that.

There is nothing in the documentation (not that the documentation is that great) to suggest that the date can be changed to any other format than dd/mm/yyyy.

Just as a matter of interest could you go to Set Up - Year Ends - tell me all the period end dates that you have set up.

At the moment that's my only feeling for an area where there may be an issue.

I'll continue to firk around with it to see if I can fathom whats going wrong with your software. Off out to visit relatives in a little while but I'll continue to look at this when I get back.

Sure that Bill will now probably come along and go "Oh, you've done such and such" but until he does I'll try to recreate the fault... Just no luck so far.

Talk in a bit,

Shaun.

ClareB4 · Senior Member

I had a very similar problem in a Sage setup on a new PC and that was down to the system setup in Control Panel - not sure if that helps but worth reviewing. If I recall correctly it was something to do with the placement of the thousand separator commas as we use commas in the UK but SA and other countries use a point instead...

Wella · Expert

Hi Gordon

I must admit, at a bit of a loss, to what the problem may be.

If it were me I think I would first of check for corrupt data using

File>Maintenance>Check For Errors/Repair

And see if the program reports any problems.

If that fails, I would unistall VT and reinstall it.

Sorry not a great deal of help

Bill

Peter Pan · Veteran Member

Good Morning all
Shaun the date I log in was 1 March 2011 to 29 Feb.2012 I have also tried the File maintenance to check for errors but that has come up clean. However on Bill suggestion that I uninstall the software a problem showed up the software just did not want to uninstall. It was a real battle to get it removed from my PC it kept stalling saying that it was missing such and such a file or saying that the share files would make my p c not work properly I had to keep on saying yes to uninstall all. I have run two of the protection programs on my PC and it has come up clean. So now after the trouble I had uninstalling the software, I thinking that it is more than likely where my problem was. So now I need to find a CLEAN download The download I had came from the VT site, so I am a bit nervous of using it. I thinking that I might have to do a custom install so that it does not end up in the same place on my PC hard drive and become come corrupted again. Or maybe do a system restore to an early date before I downloaded the problem VT. Any thoughts.

As always Many Many Thanks

Regards

Gordon Thom

Wella · Expert

Hi Gordon

Fingers crossed that the problem has been found.

I have never had any problems with the downloads from the VT site, and would trust the site.

It may be a good idea to do a restore, and reinstall VT from the website again.

Just had a quick look at VT support page. In most cases reinstalling fixes most problems but it may be worth turning off antivirus software/ firewalls when downloading (only from VT site), as they have a known problem with Kaspersky

This reminds me of the time Sheldon's relationship with Amy Farrah-Fowler went too far and Sheldon suggested doing what you do with a PC fault and do a system restore to the last point it worked properly, and start again. (sorry Gordon, know that doesn't mean anything to you but others will get it smile )

Let us know if it gets fixed

Bill

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Morning Gordon,

actually, rather than just downloading the cashbook why not download the free trial of VT accounts and just keep VT Cashbook at the end of it... Although I suspect that after using VT Transaction+ you wouldn't be satisfied with the restrictions placed on you by cashbook afterwards.

It does sound as though there may have been other issues and I worry that the clean install will just pick up the same settings again.

As Bill states though the VT site really is a trusted one. VT is used by a lot of UK accountants and security has never to my knowledge been flagged as an issue. To be clear though the site that you should be going to is this one :

http://www.vtsoftware.co.uk/

I know that a lot of dodgyy sites get created out there on the back of legitimate businesses but the above address for the site is the real one.

Even though you don't have VT support it might be worth dropping them an email with your problem as if it's something that VT have not come accross before it might help them to improve the product and you get a fix in the process.

If it's a known fault with some systems they may be able to help sort out your setup.

As I say though, as it's not purchased (VT Cashbook should be free as it's intended to give to end users for data entry so if you've paid you will definitely have got it from the wrong site) then they may not (under UK law which is what will govern this transaction) be obliged to help.

I tried everything to recreate your problem but couldn't making me think that perhaps some other program you have installed has changed Windows registry settings that VT uses. The registry though is one place you don't want to go making changes to your machine without thougher knowledge as to what else may be affected by such changes).

Good luck with the reinstalation. Fingers crossed that everything goes smoothly (please keep us informed regardless).

kind regards,

Shaun.

P.S. lol Bill. If only life came with a reset button!

Peter Pan · Veteran Member

Hello Shaun / Bill

I feel like a Real ..........Van Der Merwe......... which is a South African family name that has been on the short end of hundreds of JOKES !!!! After uninstalling Vt and switching off the fire wall and then re installed VT, it worked for the first two or thee entries and was back to its old tricks except now it jump to the year 2027 as to day date is the 27th. I then got the idea to use the pc in my garage that I use for the CCTV around my home and which has never been connected to the internet. I downloaded Vt on to a stick and installed it. Guess what it worked like a charm. no funny dates. This now confirmed that my PC was the problem I ran a scan using Microsoft security essentials and the PC came up clean. I then did a restore two weeks back and pc would not accept it. I tried a few more dates to far far back as it would go ( THREE MONTHS) so it seems that some time back I picked up a problem and it never showed itself until NOW. Quite strange I have been using Home Bookkeeping and CashBook lite for the last three years without a hitch. It seems that the best way forward for me will be to reinstall windows and format my hard drive again to get a clean start. I really feel like an old goat which I proberly am at 73 years old for wasting some much of your time But HEY. I did get your grey matter working. So fellows all I can just say thanks a ton for all your wonderful effort and great suggestions My Pc will be down for a short while and will back ASAP
Kindest Regards
Gordon Thom

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Congratulations on finding the issue Gordon.

I think that you had both Bill and myself at a bit of a loss as to what the problem could be but at least it seems as though you now have both a work around in the form of your old PC and a potential sollution... Although formatting hard drives is really the nuclear sollution at times it may be the best one... Not sure if this is one of those times but when trying to help from a distance it's difficult to make that call.

Only had to go down that road once myself and reinstalling the software registered to the machine ended up more problematic than the original issue (The Internet Explorer virus CoolWebSearch which got past my firewall prompting me to (a) take that PC off line for good. (B) change my firewall and (c) change from Internet Explorer to Firefox).

Anyway, before wandering off topic again, really hope that it all works out and your clean install resolves all issues.

Just remains to say hope that you have a happy, prosperous and windows bug free new year.

kindest regards,

Shaun.

Wella · Expert

Morning Gordon

I am glad we could help, in some small way.

At 73 I now understand your own little joke with your user name smile

Just googled Van Der Merwe jokes. The ones I did read were funny

Quite liked this one

Van der Merwe was watching a rugby test against the British Lions at Loftus Versfeld stadium in Pretoria. In the packed stadium, there was only one empty seat - next to Van der Merwe.

"Who does that seat belong to?" asked his neighbour.

"It's for my wife."

"But why isn't she here?"

"She died."

"So why didn't you give the ticket to one of your friends?"

"They've all gone to the funeral."

Have a good New Year

Bill

Any one interested in seeing some more of these jokes have a look at

http://www.oranjemundonline.com/Forum/index.php?topic=3835.0

(see what happens when you go off topic Gordon biggrin )

-- Edited by Wella on Wednesday 28th of December 2011 11:22:10 AM

Peter Pan · Veteran Member

A VERY GOOD Morning Bill / Shaun
Just a another point you might be able to help with. Is how to deal with EFT's as this is almost the norm these days in S. Africa and am I right in a summing that it is not possible to add a note with your entry in Vt cashbook.

Thanks Fellows
Gordon Thom

Wella · Expert

Morning Gordon

Sorry what's EFT (may be the haze of Christmas affecting me)

I don't normally use cashbook but have just had a look at it and you are right, it does appear you cannot add a note when you make the entry but you can go in after and edit and add a note then (just tried it and it works)

Either right click the transaction and select edit, then select the General tab, and type your note, or click on the ... box at the end of the transaction line, which also takes you in to edit mode.

Can I assume that you were successful with the re-install?

Bill

Peter Pan · Veteran Member

Good Afternoon Bill
Thank you for coming back to me so quick. Trust you and the family had a good and safe Christmas and that the year ahead will one of Health and that the stock market will be good to you . The re-installation has been done . My PC still needs to have a few downloads but VT is working a lot better, and the Date is now more predicable.

Bill we call an Electronic fund transfer an EFT it is no big deal as the pay description can take care of that part and the note I was looking for is quite useful a few months later just to help prompt the memory so many thanks for that.

I will more than likely will be back with many more questions as I go on

Again Many Thanks

Gordon Thom

Peter Pan · Veteran Member

Good Morning All
I am about to climb mount Everest. In a bookkeeping sense. And I really can do with every ones input and help in any way possible. The picture I paint is one of. My son has had a advertising business for fifteen years. From the beginning my ex- wife who has worked as a manual type bookkeeper for fifty years has taken charge of the accounting side of the business and I must say has done an excellent job ( Who better to look after your money than your mother ) Over the years I have tried to have computerized accounting installed. From Turbo Cash, Simply Accounting, and the latest Quick books theses take off for a very short period and then get dumped because of some problems or other, three or four weeks down the line you discover that she has gone back to the manual style of bookkeeping. Please bear in mind that it is also not so easy to fire your mother, she just shows up again the next day and defends her territory. Due to his mother age of Seventy Fours years and that she is not ready to call time I have been searching for a basic accounting package that we can get her started on which is as close as possibly to the manual system. One where she can get familiar with in one section at a time. Would you agree that VT cashbook and then VT transaction + is the way to go or is there other software that I should be looking at. The company employs about ten to twelve people and would be found wanting if something had to happen to her. Bill / Shaun I sure would appreciate you input on this.

As always kindest regards

Gordon Thom

P.s The very best for 2012 and may you be first in the queue to win the jackpot.

Dalbir · Senior Member

Hi Gordon. Have a play around with Arithmo. It s an online system and really easy to use. If difficulty in using Arithmo; then my advice pick the system you are most comfortable with out of software you have tested and invest in some training. the last thing you want is your son's books to not be in order, both compliance wise and running the business wise. Another option is to invest in a part time bookkeeper. A good bookkeeper can also support your son in ways of controlling his business's expenses. look forward to your feedback on your play around with Arithmo ps new version coming out soon. As it s online; gets updated automatically. Happy New Year Dalbir

Peter Pan · Veteran Member

Hello Dabir
Thanks for the input will have a look at Arithmo We have tried a part time bookkeeper it did not work out. will keep all posted.

Regards
Gordon Thom

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Gordon,

Happy new year to you as well.

As you've rightly identified VT is a fantastic peice of software for those who get used to it's idiosyncracies. (Still can't quite come to grips with the fact that there is no fixed asset register within the software itself).

Do searches on this site or on Accountingweb (where the accountants play) and I don't think that you will find a bad word said about it... Hang on a minute, I'm off to have a look for a bad word said about it...

Right, I'm back, did you miss me.

VT transaction+ gets slated by one person on accounting web who was completely new to it but later in the same thread rescinds their former rant when they realise that VT does everything that they want but not in the same way as Sage.

I would say that they major issue for people with VT is where they have been brought up only on Sage so don't really understand what's happening in the background.

With VT you really have to understand the principles of double entry.

The way that I learnt VT was by doing a full years accounts that had already been done by my accountants and then keep redoing it until my results came out the same.

I actually found VT Accounts better for me than VT Transaction+ largely due to the notes to the accounts which show how the calculations have been performed.

If this is a route that you decide to go down downloading VT Accounts (which is an Excel add on) also comes with VT Transaction+ and VT Cashbook (which you already have).

You can get a trial for a month or so before signing up for it to be your package of choice (which I think that you will).

Note that if you trial VT Accounts but decide that you only want VT Transaction+ then at the end of the term just sign up for the component that you need.

VT Cashbook is still free no matter which direction you decide to take. Although, as you've no doubt already identified whilst it is fine for data entry it is not fit for purpose for anything beyond that and for bookkeeping you need to have at least VT Transaction+.

I think that your ideal setup would be for a clerk to handle to day to day entries via VT Cashbook with you, your son or your wife having the copy of VT Transaction+.

Also, if your wife got used to VT Transaction+ I think that she would like it as it adheres to the principles and practice of traditional double entry bookkeeping. That said, she may not wish to move from her existing system as its taking away something that she have lovingly developed over many years.

Could I perhaps suggest running the manual and computerised systems alongside each other for a couple of years.

I appreciate that it doubles the effort but I think that even though she may not say it this bookkeeping role for the sons business is probably very important to her.

Also, running the two systems in parallel will help to iron out any issues on the computerised side before it takes over when your wife feels ready to step down.

Just a suggestion but hope that it helps,

kind regards,

Shaun.

Peter Pan · Veteran Member

Hello Shaun
How please I am to have met another bright person whose thinking follows my train of thoughts to a T. I was really looking for someone to confirm my thoughts and I agree with every thing you have written. I am so surprise you could have knock me over with a feather.......... Coming across VT and having had a chance to played with it a bit I realized that I had found part of the answer and with your and Bills help I was able to to sort the date problem. What you have written has instill new confidants in me that VT+ is right package. Now all I have to do is come up with a good chart of accounts that would relate to an ad agency ( Got Any Ideas) so that come The 5th of January I will have all my ducks in a row and be able to delivery a smooth presentation. I cant have any hitches otherwise they knock me flat. I will be using your bit about running the accounts side by side as that makes a lot of sense.

Most grateful for your input

Kind Regards
Gordon Thom

P.s To Dabir : I think using an online Accounting System is like using your neighbours electric fence and expecting it to work and protect you. For me.......... I have to keep control. Not to sure about the online accounting it like advertising your companies most valuable assets
Regards Gordon Thom

Dalbir · Senior Member

Peter Pan wrote:

P.s To Dabir : I think using an online Accounting System is like using your neighbours electric fence and expecting it to work and protect you. For me.......... I have to keep control. Not to sure about the online accounting it like advertising your companies most valuable assets
Regards Gordon Thom

Hi Gordon

Arithmo data is housed in very secure data centres, current and future.

Our new system is housed by the same folks housing Confused.com, Virgin trains, MOD and NHS direct data.

Neighbour's electric fence is not right analogy. Online is about sharing costs of modern sercure facilities with other folks. It's a bit like sharing the costs of flying in a jet airliner to SA, rather than flying solo.

By posting on online forum, your data is already out their on the web and if you use online banking, facebook, and webmail (hotmail, gmail, etc) then you are storing data somewhere out there.

Also with online, you have flexibility. You can use any computer to do your books. With Arithmo, multiple folks can be logged on at the same time and update the books.

Dalbir

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Dalbir,

but you can't get away from the fact that if, for instance you purchased Quickbooks or VT you own the software which sits on your machine whereas with cloud offerings you must keep paying every month forever and you are dependant upon having access to the internet.

I appreciate fully that it works for some but there are definitely two camps. Those who want to go down that path and those that don't.

Maybe after the security scandals over Ministry of Defence and NHS data that one isn't the best of examples! Actually, that's a bit unfair as the security issues have been with backups, downloads and laptops going walkies rather than the systems actually being hacked.

I can actually see the electric fence analogy as you are dependant upon someone else to provide a service.

Why would one want to share the ongoing costs of others where you can buy the software and have it securely on your office machines without any further costs?

Where I can see cloud coming into it's own is for larger scale distributed systems where many people contribute to the maintenance of a central database either within a single company or where multiple companies share linked facilities and are willing to sign up to the same IT systems.

All a matter of horses for courses methinks and I'm with Gordon on this one in that VT or equivalent software with appropriate backups is all that he requires for his sons business.

-- Edited by Shamus on Sunday 1st of January 2012 08:14:02 PM

Dalbir · Senior Member

Hi Shaun. Watchen Chasing classic cars now on tv luv it. 10min to Ab Fab. Ok back to debate of costs on premise v cloud. Cloud includes security, hosting, updates and support. on premise dosn't. Costs for Arithmo are low. If you get Sage annual support- it works out more expensive than our offering. if Sage database goes corrupt and you don't have support. It's costly to repair. Ive had laptop hard drives go on me, so back up is v important. Allot of folks using on premise use cloud offerings like Dropbox to store backup. if you use dropbox. ur in a cloud and dependent on them in keeping your data safe. Ab fab on now Dalbir

Peter Pan · Veteran Member

Hi Dabir and Shaun
I seem to recall a short while a go that Sony's online play games thing -a - Bob got hacked and millions of people who played these games were put at risk.

I am in total agreement with what Shaun has written and as I wrote he is very bright. We certainly think along the same lines and I could not have answer your reply better.

Just to add some more fuel to the fire the banks in South Africa are losing millions to online theft to the point now were they want you to prove that you were not not sloppy with your online dealings

Computer share Register will not accept and act on a e-mail or online instruction

To day the biggest theft in America is online identity theft.

Dabir we are not trying to put you down and I thank you for your input, debate is good and maybe someone else will pick up on the saga of online accounting but for me personally it is a big No No!!!!!

Kind regards
Gordon Thom

kjmcculloch83 · Expert

Hi Dalbir,

You may find this really hard to believe after all the conversations we've had, but I am actually now looking at some cloud software. You know that my issue has never been about security. I have no issues with my data being held online, I used online banking, buy online etc. I am happy that most companies offering these services have good security and backup routines. My problem has always been how easy would it be to take my data elsewhere, but I see more and more offer the ability to export to excel.

I think it is going to be better for me as I am starting to use remote bookkeepers to help me in busy periods, and I think it would be interesting to be able to offer clients real time reports.

Kris

Dalbir · Senior Member

Hi Gordon

Peter Pan wrote:

I seem to recall a short while a go that Sony's online play games thing -a - Bob got hacked and millions of people who played these games were put at risk.

That saga was embarrassing for Sony and it's IT function. It surprised the industry that in effect they left their door open, turned security cameras off and gave the security guard a holiday. I don't know ins and out of Sony but get impression they housed the data in-house with little knowledge of data security procedures.

Peter Pan wrote:
Just to add some more fuel to the fire the banks in South Africa are losing millions to online theft to the point now were they want you to prove that you were not not sloppy with your online dealings
............

To day the biggest theft in America is online identity theft.

Online banking fraud is mostly via Phishing scams, Where the victim inadvertently gives away their details (either through social engineering like targeting lonely hearts) or through setting up bogus websites where the victim accidently thinks it's the bank's real site and completes their login.

Peter Pan wrote:
Dabir we are not trying to put you down and I thank you for your input, debate is good and maybe someone else will pick up on the saga of online accounting but for me personally it is a big No No!!!!!

Kind regards
Gordon Thom

Don't worry, moderators have power to flex their muscles if they feel folks are putting other folks down or complaints are made.

Online software are becoming more popular (all types), hence practice owners like Kris's posting are getting more about online systems. Also there is a growing need as more people use multi-hardware (laptops, netbooks, phones, tablets) to access the same data, documents, photos etc through their hardware.

Back to Gordon's main reason for posting. I still feel Gordan you should look at hiring a bookkeeper over attempting to do books yourself. Though you had a bad experience; there are many out there who have right experience, qualifications, and insurance and you should meet some and gives both you and the bookkeepers opportunities to see if you are right for each other.

Here's a good place to start your search for bookkeepers

http://www.book-keepers.net/find-a-bookkeeper

Dalbir

Peter Pan · Veteran Member

Hello Dabir
Yes there are online services I would subscribe to like maybe photos and other less important things than my money or the way that I earn it. It seems silly to expose yourself / company if there is no good reason to. I also think online stuff is more acceptable to the younger generation, who still have to experience life knocks to fully understand why the older generation are a bit more skeptic when it comes to online. I think you misunderstood me when I said that I tried and had bookkeepers come in to help. It is not that they were bad or no good it is just that my ex wife has been a bookkeeper for close on fifty years and she is not ready to retire and no reason why she should. I just need some software like I think VT is to bring her along into the computerized world of bookkeeping. What she really needs is some software that she can tackle and work out for herself. So my question is VT the best software for the job or can you or anyone recommend better.

Kind regards

Gordon Thom

Ps if I had to guess Kris age it would be about thirty or below