Hi Nina
I would chase the invoices and receipts - hound them!!!!! Especially if it is supposed to be a proper invoice as you are entitled to a VAT invoice (I usually threaten with getting the VAT man involved if they refuse to provide one - usually does the trick!) Besides how can you know for sure that it is always a business expense that should be reported in the first place without a correctly addressed document, showing what the thing is for?

NinaKoni wrote:

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Hi Joanne,

I agree with you but reality is that we don't receive VAT invoice for everything. Sometimes is an order only or receipt. The question is if we have these documents and you don't claim VAT based on that is not proper VAT invoice - if you claim mileages for instance - do we include them in box 7. What do you think?

Nina

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Ditto what Shaun said.  No receipt for vat means you also shouldn't be putting it through for a CT reduction. Just storing up trouble for a HMRC inspection.

in reality, allow the business to get away with not getting receipts and having sloppy processes just makes them even more complacent and then you get an increase in missing bits of paper.  I tell the 14-18 year old Explorer Scouts 'no receipt, no claim'. They bring in a 49p bottle of milk with no receipt then the milk cost has come out of their own pocket money, or they go back and get a receipt, a life lesson and one they don't repeat after the first time.

Re your comment 'sometimes is an order only or receipt', can you explain further? The receipt first....are you saying you are getting a simplified receipt, rather than a full blown A4 vat receipt? Can you give an example. I suspect that these are vat receipts, by virtue of eitherr he fact they have a vat number on and follow the simplified receipt rules or a receipt from a non vat registered entity?

re the order, again a more detailed example might help. Why and from whom would you order something and not get any kind of paperwork? Or are you meaning something paid for on proforma?

"re the order, again a more detailed example might help. Why and from whom would you order something and not get any kind of paperwork? Or are you meaning something paid for on proforma?"

If it's anything like a few of my clients, it'll be print outs of order emails from Amazon and things like that - but using Amazon specifically as the example:

Because they don't automatically send out invoices by email, people who [ know no better / are too bloody lazy* ] think the email that comes out confirming the order is an acceptable alternative, and don't habitually log-in to either print (if the item is from Amazon themselves) or request (if the order is from someone selling through Amazon) the invoice.

(I was somewhere recently where I'd written instructions to do that on a printed order confirmation. That confirmation with those instructions are still in the guy's in-tray after about six months.)

Personally, I think any company selling online should be legally required to *both*

• supply an invoice by email to the email address supplied by the customer once the order is complete, payment taken, and the goods (or services) provided
• and provide a way to retrieve copies of the invoice from their website at a later date if needed. (This because email delivery of anything is not guaranteed)

Also, in the case of Amazon (and others who offer similar 'marketplace' type services), they have details of all their marketplace sellers, including whether or not they are VAT registered, and their VAT numbers if they are. They could automatically issue invoices on behalf of the sellers to make things much simpler - and therefore, SHOULD do so.

And for the OP (and anyone else in a similar situation), here's a good reason why an order, confirmation, or whatever is NOT an acceptable alternative:

Just imagine I'm a dodgy geezer with my own business - and I see something at an online retailer that I want for my home, which costs (say) £60.00 including VAT. That VAT is not reclaimable.

That retailer also sells stuff that I could use in my business. I find an item (or a selection of items) to the value of £60 including VAT. As soon as I get the order confirmation I print it, and cancel that order. I then order the item I want for my home.

Now, because my bookkeeper simply accepts that "we don't get the receipts or invoices for everything" and will make do with order confirmations, I can reclaim £10 worth of VAT from an order that was never fulfilled (because I cancelled it) - but it looks right because there's a payment going out for the full amount, paying for what I bought for my home.

The only way to avoid things like this is to Insist on a VAT receipt or invoice, or simply disallow it.

* Delete as appropriate

Edit: Forgot the footnote!

[Aside: Now this is something I've never seen before: My earlier post was written and posted from my Linux desktop machine at home, and it appeared without any problems. I've logged in now on my Windows laptop - and when I went to the advanced editor, the form was populated with my earlier post, as if it was still draft/unposted. Anyway...]

"If you buy something say for £100 + VAT and you can buy it on the net for £85 but no VAT receipt that saves the company £15 surely?"

I suspect it's more a case of they can buy something for £120 including VAT, and see it online for (say) £114 - so it looks cheaper. However, that £114 might be from a supplier who isn't registered for VAT, and/or it may be a situation where they have to chase up a VAT invoice but don't. Bottom line in this case is that instead of saving £5 (the difference in the net) they've cost themselves £14 because they can't claim back the VAT until/unless they get a VAT invoice.

When you get to even lower value items it becomes more of a pain. When business owners try to save money like that on items that cost just a few quid, and then have to spend their time chasing or retrieving invoices, even if they manage to get a suitable invoice, the cost of their own time (as well as ours, usually) means there is no saving, and they've actually cost the business more than they've saved in VAT.

Like I said before: It should be a legal requirement to SEND VAT invoices/receipts by email for stuff purchased online, which would avoid the messing around and wasted time and money in most cases.

"Thanks for the heads up on the scam, that's something I wasn't aware of."

It's not so much a scam I've seen in the wild, but it's always struck me as an 'obvious' way to cheat the system, so it's worth laying it out as yet another reason to insist on the right pieces of paper (or PDFs!)

pictures wrote:

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Well yes with those figures you would save but I am talking of instances where something may be £1000 including VAT and you can claim it back or £900 including VAT but you can't claim it.

The hotel websites vary. With booking.com your VAT receipt comes direct from the hotel as they are just acting as a kind of agent taking commission. We make the booking (I always check if its cheaper to go direct) then request the hotel provides a VAT invoice on checkout. Their terms and conditions state that your contract is with the hotel direct so they are the supplier.

However there is one website I think it is hotels.com that isn't VAT registered (quite how I am not sure I think its a loophole something to do with the Tour Operators Margin Scheme ) but your booking is with them, not the hotel direct so no VAT receipts can be provided as your contract is with them as a reseller of services, not the hotel.

-- Edited by pictures on Wednesday 3rd of May 2017 12:48:30 PM

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 I was thinking of booking. com. I've never used hotels. com.  Yes I agree on your scenario, and tbf not everyone will know to take the VAT into account when working out which is cheaper.